The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Sourdough

pmccool's picture
pmccool

My wife purchased a copy of BBA as a birthday present some weeks back and I finally got around to using a formula from the book; in this case, the New York Deli Rye sandwich loaf. It is a definite keeper. I have been admonished to put a big star next to that particular formula.

The bread is a wonderful base for a corned beef and swiss cheese sandwich, to start with. We'll keep experimenting and see what else works, too. The onions in the bread are a a delicious complement to other savory flavors, but somehow manage not to overwhelm the other components.

Since it was my first attempt for this formula, I made sure to follow the instructions closely. I opted out of the use of caraway seeds, since my wife does not enjoy that flavor. Next time I may try either dill or fennel seeds, since it seems either of those would make a good flavor complement.

The use of commercial yeast, brown sugar and buttermilk in the formula were a bit surprising. I think that the buttermilk (and the shortening) contributed to the finished bread's moistness. For the next attempt, I will probably skip the yeast. My starter seems to have plenty of boost, so the yeast really isn't necessary to ensure an adequate rise. I do need to follow some of JMonkey's recommendations for increasing the sourness of the starter. Mine is more mild than wild in the flavor department, even with having refrigerated the second build of the starter overnight. A longer, cooler rise with no commercial yeast would probably increase the sour flavor.

The other thing that I should have done was keep a closer eye on the dough during the final rise. When I came back in from some outdoor chores to check on it, it was almost 2 inches above the edge of the pan, instead of the recommended 1 inch! Warm day plus commercial yeast--who'd have thought it? Anyway, I got lucky in that there aren't tunnels and that the bread holds together instead of crumbling in the middle of the slice, like some other over-risen breads that I have made.

All things considered, this was a very satisfactory experiment with a new recipe. And it will definitely be back for an encore.

Joe Fisher's picture

Overnight retard problem

July 20, 2006 - 1:17pm -- Joe Fisher

So I'm using the Basic Sourdough recipe in the BBA. I fed the starter two nights ago, made the dough last night and got a good first ferment out of it. The dough doubled in 4 hours. I knocked the dough down and shaped it into baguettes and boules, covered them with plastic wrap, and stuck them in the fridge overnight.

I took them out this morning and left them in my 75-80 degree kitchen. After 6 hours, they hadn't risen at all. They were still flat as pancakes.

When I baked them, I got a fair oven spring, but not enough to offset the lack of a secondary rise. The interior is dense and chewy.

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Have made this 3 times for my cafe and it sells rapidly. Blueberry and cream cheese combination is a new flavour combinatiion for New Zealanders. I drizzle a little lemon juice icing over the braid which adds to ita appeal. Thank you for the recipe as muffins are becoming passe

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

A comment from Joe Fisher in this lesson I put together got me thinking about trying a really wet starter to see how it turned out. I usually make my sourdough with a 50% hydration starter (1 part water to 2 parts flour) which makes a really stiff starter. What if I reversed it? What if I had a starter at 200% (2 parts water to 1 part flour)?

Well, I tried it. On Wednesday, I converted part of my stiff starter to a 200% hydration starter and fed it about three times before making bread.

The result?

It was still sour, but a different kind of sour. Less tart, more smooth. I liked it. Now, it's possible that my starter hadn't fully adjusted to the super wet environment and I had some stiff starter microbes hanging out, I dunno. But I'm beginning to think that time and temperature may be much more important to the sourness of one's bread than the starter itself.

Anyway, I'm still keeping my starter stiff. Less chance of a spill in my cramped fridge, and it's easier to give away as a solid dough that a liquid. Fun experiment though!

Joe Fisher's picture

Playing with Pan de Campagne

July 9, 2006 - 5:06pm -- Joe Fisher

Here's today's work. I tried some new shapes, a couronne and a 3-strand braid. The recipe is a slightly modified version of Reinhart's Pan de Campagne. Instead of using a pate' fermentee, I used some of my rye sourdough starter, which I mixed with bread flour to make the same volume of pre-ferment.

They sure look nice! Can't wait to taste :)

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Mini Oven's picture

Wheat or Rye or Oat Starters

July 6, 2006 - 2:37am -- Mini Oven

Wheat or Rye or Oat starters

I used to believe that any sourdough starter could raise a variety of other grains in a recipe but I now believe each starter is specific to itself and it's pH. If you want a mixed starter, one for say wheat and rye, then combine two starters first, then feed with mixed flours.

I also think the liquid that forms on top of the starter is the "sour" and should be used. I poured it off once and noticed a big reduction in sour taste. :) Mini Oven

JMonkey's picture

Lesson: Squeeze more sour from your sourdough

July 2, 2006 - 9:43pm -- JMonkey

I am far from a sourdough expert. I’ve only been baking sourdough since February, and I still have a lot to learn about shaping, scoring and proofing to perfection.

However, there is one thing I have learned well: how to squeeze more flavor out of my naturally sweet starter. Here's the basic tips.

1) Keep the starter stiff
2) Spike your white starter with whole rye
3) Use starter that is well-fed
4) Keep the dough cool
5) Extend the rise by degassing
6) Proof the shaped loaves overnight in the fridge

Photos and elaboration follow.

Valerio's picture

In Search of The Lost Nuttiness

June 30, 2006 - 5:42pm -- Valerio

The first bread I baked after I fully developed my current starter was pretty much perfection for my taste: It was slightly sour, but more importantly it had a nutty taste that would linger in your palate for a long time.

That bread dough was developed following a variation of the basic BBA sourdough recipe, the variation being that I mixed and baked the dough the same day, a direct-from-starter dough. That should have produced a lesser result, instead it produced a wonderful loaf.

Alas that was the first and last time I got such wonderful taste. Since then using the same starter, flour and recipe did not produce that nuttiness I am after.

Joe Fisher's picture

Sourdough rye experiment - overnight ferment

June 25, 2006 - 10:38am -- Joe Fisher

Here is a batch of sourdough rye from Bread Alone. I tried 3 new things today:

1. Adding vital wheat gluten. Last time I made this formula, it was dense and gummy. I'm hoping the VWG improves the texture.

2. Overnight ferment. I kneaded the dough, let it proof at room temp about an hour, then put it in the fridge overnight. In the morning, I put it in a warm spot for 2 hours until it had almost doubled from its original size.

3. Used a heating pad under the couche. Since I seem to always get a lackluster final rise (and the dough was still a bit cool from its overnight fridging), I decided to try the heating pad. It seems to have worked, as I got a nice rise out of the loaves, but it didn't happen overly fast. It took almost 2 hours for the loaves to almost double.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I made a simple dough this morning with the intent of making some type of a picnic bread today. Something with cheese and onion, perhaps olives or sausage mixed in. But then we ended up picnicing at the lake today as well. After a long day in the sun, I just couldn't face the prospect of baking in 90 degree weather. Actually, it wasn't the baking as much as having the house heat up, particularly the upstairs bedroom, which get sweltering on hot days. So I froze the dough for a later date.

The heat did not stop my son, however:

His toy broom, which has hardly a bristle left, has recently been transformed into a peel. A super peel, perhaps?

;^)

He spent a good half hour loading and unloading loaves in the oven (hot tub lid) while we made dinner.

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