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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Norm's formula for Jewish Corn Bread

There was a request for Norm's formula for Jewish Corn Rye recently. It is in an old blog entry that is hard to find, but I flushed it out.

Norm's formula for Jewish Corn Bread, along with his descriptions of how this bread was made in the bakery, can be found in the following thread

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6103/craving-crackly-crust-sour-rye-bread

Note that this thread also has Norm's formula for Jewish Sour Rye and some other rye formulas. Lots of interesting information.
The question of when Corn Bread is ready to slice is not addressed. Maybe Norm will add his wisdom on that particular question.

David

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Random thoughts about kitchen equipment, Norwich Sourdough, diastatic malt and sourdough starter....

Well, I went a little crazy with kitchen equipment over the past couple of weeks. I finally found myself a pizza stone (two actually), as well as proofing baskets, and a mixer! Yes i went crazy! And you have no idea how hard some of it was to find... I ended up getting the pizza stones while I was in Amsterdam on business! At an amazing kitchen store called Duikelman, if you ever visit Amsterdam and want to see a *really* nice kitchen goods store its worth the visit. Right alongside the museums and art galleries and other tourist attractions. ;-) But then I had to lug them on the train back to Germany! I really wasn't able to find a single store in my home town that sold them. Same went with the baskets actually, so i got myself a nice one for proofing boules at Duikelman but then of course once I got it I found a *really* cheap place to buy them close to home. After searching all kinds of place I finally found them in Metro (a wholesaler) of all places. With a bit of linen cloth I MacGyver'ed myself a couple of nice little proofing baskets.

All told this bread thing has set me back some nice dough (heh) in terms of proper equipment, but its fun, and my kitchen is the better off for it. The mixer is actually one of these multipurpose jobos that will come in useful in all sorts of ways. I cant count the number of times Ive skipped a recipe because making it without proper tools would just be too time consuming. Anyway, thats the way I'm justifying the purchase to myself when I start feeling guilty. :-)

The mixer is a big deal for me. Having used it only once, to make Norwich Sourdough, its already pretty clear that it will totally change making bread for me, making it easier to do right with much less mess. The pizza stone seems to have had some effect, but im not sure how much, possibly I havent heated it up long enough first, I want to test more.

Anyway, about Norwich Sourdough.. The Norwich Sourdough I did as my inaugeral attempt with the mixer was easily the nicest sourdough ive managed to do so far. Perfect shape and rise, beautiful crumb and crust, and very easy to follow directions. One of these days Ill get myself set up to post pictures :-)

I would heartily recommend my fellow novice bakers to try the Norwich Sourdough recipe. It worked out great for me! So good im going to try it again after I finish this post. :-) One thing she doesnt include is a formula but instead only the recipe. Of course thats pretty easy to calculate from here recipe. Here it is:

%75 : 900 flour
%10 : 120 rye
%50 : 600 water
%30 : 360 starter 1:1
%1.92 : 23g NaCl

Flour = 900 + 120 + (360/2) = 1200
Water = 600 + (360/2) = 780

Hydration = 780/1200 = %65
Total = Flour + Water + NaCL = 2003g

Do look at the original page tho. The author has some important instructions there that you should read, and frankly the blog is worthy of a bookmark for any baker's browser. The author has lots of nice recipes and good style and touch for explaining a recipe. I think her site is great.

The other interesting thing Ive learned recently regarded diastatic malt. I fed a bit to my starter to give a it a bit of a kick last night when I was doubling it for todays Norwich Sourdough recipe. It went crazy! Instead of just doubling it trippled or more. Just insane. Maybe i used too much. But obviously the sourdough *really* liked it. :-) I think if you think your sourdough is sluggish a little dose of diastatic malt might be the thing to perk it up. So to speak :-)

Actually, since my last blog my starter situation has changed somewhat, and I guess I could stabilized. I got annoyed at maintaining two starters and mixed them together. The result is quite nice, no issues there, and since I dont need to keep two cultures separate anymore I have a free jar, so ive started a process of swapping.

Each day I feed it in its current jar, and then afterwards pour it into the new jar and put the old jar in the dishwasher for cleaning. That way no splatters or mess gets on the side of the new jar. I then use a piece of tape on the jar to mark how full the jar was post mixing, and then observe over the next 24 hours what happens, marking the highpoint (as shown by streaks on the glass or direct observation) also. Doing this over a few weeks Ive come to know the behaviour of my starter pretty well. It definitely has the capability of doubling or more in under 24 hours (more like 12) and it often appears to more than double. This says to me my starter is alive and well. Yay!

 

Pablo's picture
Pablo

when to add salt?

I seem to have read different methods of when to add the salt to the recipe. Some say to do the autolyse without the salt (or the poolish or the yeast), some say to mix everything together and wait 1/2 an hour. Way back a thousand years ago when I read the Tasajara Bread Book I seem to dimly recall that there was a warning that salt retarded or killed yeast. It was always added later. When I was using the bread machine I put everything together and the dough came out fine. Thoughts? Thanks for any info. Paul

glenmarshall's picture
glenmarshall

Anadama Bread

This being the second time I've baked bread, I decided to try my childhood favorite.

Anadama Bread

Anadama Bread (from www.anadamabread.com)

Ingredients

½ c. coarse cornmeal
2 T. butter
2 c. boiling water
1 tsp. salt
½ c. unsulphured blackstrap molasses
1 pkg. dried yeast
5 c. unbleached flour

Making it

  1. Stir the cornmeal slowly in water the boiling water and let steam over a double boiler for a minimum of one hour. You can make it up and let it sit overnight.

  2. Add the butter, molasses, and salt.

  3. Cool a bit. When lukewarm, add the yeast dissolved in warm water.

  4. Add enough flour to make a stiff bread dough.

  5. Knead for 10 minutes

  6. Turn into a greased bowl covered with a damp cloth and let sit for 1 - 1½ hours until double in bulk.

  7. Shape 2 loaves and place in 2 greased medium bread pans; let rise until double in bulk.

  8. Bake in hot 400 degree oven for 1 hour. Note: I baked it @400 for 30 minutes and then 350 for another 20.  

 

holds99's picture
holds99

Rose Levy Beranbaum's English Muffins

For my first attempt at English muffins I decided to try Rose Levy Beranbaum's recipe from her Bread Bible.  The recipe uses a sponge/poolish and is an enriched (with butter and honey) dough.  I followed her recipe to the letter, except for diameter size.  After mixing I placed the dough in the fridge overnight for retardation.  She says it can stay in the fridge up to 24 hours. I left it in for about 12 hours.   The recipe calls for rolling the dough out while it is cold and cutting round 3 1/2 inch diameter  rounds (I cut them 4 inches in diameter).  Place them on a pan sprinkled with corn meal and sprinkle the tops lightly with corn meal, then allow them to rise (covered) until double in volume.

 Rose Levy No. 1Rose Levy Beranbaum's English Muffins: Rose Levy No. 1

Photo below: Then place each dough round on a lightly buttered, griddle heated to medium.  Cook on one side for 10 minutes, flip them over and cook on the other side for about half previous time (5 minutes) until they reach an internal temp. of 190 deg. F 

 Rose Levy No. 3

Rose Levy Beranbaum's English Muffins: Rose Levy No. 3

Photo Below: The front 2 rows are the tops (after being flipped and cooked 5 minutes).  The back 2 rows are the bottoms (after cooking for 10 minutes).

  Rose Levy No. 3

Rose Levy Beranbaum's English Muffins: Rose Levy No. 3

The photo below is the crumb of the muffin.

 Rose Levy No. 4

Rose Levy Beranbaum's English Muffins: Rose Levy No. 4

Summary

In the opening passage of her recipe she says: "This incredibly smooth and supple dough is almost identical to the one for Basic Soft White Sandwich Loaf (page 244).  Therein lies the problem. The muffins DO NOT resemble English muffins with the firm texture and craggy holes in the crumb.  The crumb was way too doughy and more like the texture of Wonder Bread than English Muffin. 

With all due respect to Rose Levy, who I think has written a terrific book (Bread Bible), which I bake from frequently---I would be less than honest if I didn't say strike this one from your "To Bake" list.

Dougal has posted a version of Dan Lepard's recipe for crumpets that I plan to try next.  Thank you Dougal.  I'll keep you posted.

 

 

 

mcs's picture
mcs

Kalamata Loaf

Hey there everybody. Well about a month ago I asked for some advice in creating a 'Peasant Loaf', more specifically a Kalamata loaf, and I had lots of great suggestions and recipes. Anyways, this is what I came up with and it's derived mostly from the recipe AnnieT posted in the original thread (Dan Lepard's recipe), a recipe Bob (Oldcampcook) sent me, and my rustic white recipe that Eric (ehanner) blogged about not too long ago. Thanks so much everyone; I'll try to post the recipe as a PDF here so as not to clog up this thread too much.
EDIT: Unlike on the recipe, I now add the olive oil mixture at the beginning of the mixing at the same time as the water.  Also, I'm now baking this loaf and all of my other without bannetons - just shaped freeform on parchment paper.  Oh, and for you technical types, this is a description of the sequence pics below from left to right and top to bottom:
fold at 1 hour; fold at 2 hours
shaping; just placed in bannetons
after proofing for 80 minutes; scoring before baking
They were baked on the parchment/pan for 20 minutes, then removed w/ a peel and baked on the oven rack (with a pan below to catch any drips) for 15 minutes

-Mark

kalamata sequencekalamata sequence

loafloaf

crumbcrumb

 

Lilandra's picture
Lilandra

whole grain book recommendation?

I think I need a whole grain book.

I have no clue what to get. The books I currently have are Reinhart's BBA and Beranbaum's Bread Bible.

I was wondering about King Arthur Flour Whole Grains Book or even Reinhart's. Or any other suggestions other people have?

And yes, I did busy myself searching but oh...I'm sooo confused. I don't know if I can afford both but who knows.

I haven't even really started using Beranbaum's Bible yet so...I'm a veritable newbie.

 maybe i should get this (laurel's kitchen)

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Retarded fermentation

Hi,

I've got a question about retarded fermentation or cold fermentation. Are there any qualitative differences between retarding the bulk fermentation and the final fermentation (the final proofing bit before loaves go into the oven)?

A couple of the straight dough recipes in Hamelman's "Bread" suggests retarded bulk fermentation, and I have had excellent results when I've tried this method on his straight oatmeal bread. However, due to changing work schedules etc., it sometimes could be more convenient to prolong the final fermentation instead; for instance shaping loaves and refrigerating them in the evening, and then putting them straight into the oven in the morning. I've done this retarded step only with straight doughs so far: Are there any pitfalls to avoid when the dough contains a pre-ferment (biga, poolish, pate fermentee)?

I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences with retarding the fermentation process at different stages throughout the bread making process!

Also, I've wondered why Hamelman suggests retarded bulk fermentation only when it comes to straight doughs. Will retarding a pre-fermented dough make it too sour, you think?

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Starting a sourdough starter - Summary of internet research

Ive been looking into various recipes and explanations of creating a starter, and i thought id put a summary here.

--

Pretty well all of the recipes include a replication step like "divide in two, disposing of one half, and adding back a particular ratio mixture as a replacement". A very few have slightly different steps in the first few days but end up with this process at the end.

Additionally almost all recipes have the same general description for success: a mixture that when replicated displays a leavening effect (rises to about double its size) and a sort of "large bubble" foam on a consistant basis over several days. Notably many authors mention that it is common to see a false leavening effect caused by undesirable bacteria in the early phase of the process that then disappears after several days only to be replaced by the real leavening effect a few days later.

By far the most common recipe comes down to: take a 1:1 by weight mixture of flour and water and replicate every 24 hours until stable. Some recipes suggest 12 hours, and some require specific types of flour, with many recommending wholemeal or rye flour until the mixture is stable and then switching to AP afterwards. Most suggest that the unit be a cup of water. Also a number suggest using a 1:2 mixture (1 cup flour to 1 cup water is about 1:2 flour to water by weight),

Occasionally a few additives are suggested:

Acidic additives: These usually include some kind of acidic juice, with pineapple or orangejuice in the initial steps. The idea is that the juice lowers the ph preventing undesirable bacteria from growing but providing a good environment for wild yeast while at the same time providing sugars for the wild yeast to feed on. Vinegar is also suggested occasionally for similar reasons.

There are a much lower number suggesting using milk products. In this case the intention seems to be to encourage lactobascili, and also possibly the same justification as for the acidic additives.

Diastatic malt is also sometimes recommended with a tiny amount being added in the initial steps, also people that use AP flour will be unknowingly including tiny amounts of this as it usually added by the miller. The intention of this seems to be to provide sugar to the wild yeast, but enzymatically from the starch from the flour. Sometimes sweetener is suggested for similar reasons.

A few sources seem to suggest that you can manufacture wild yeast from commerical yeast, or that commerical bakers yeast will revert to wild.

One or two seem to suggest using things like unmilled rye or barly, or using the skins of wild or field grown grapes.

---

When i decided to make a starter I had access to a commerical starter "Seitenbacher(c) Natur Saurteig" that is widely available in grocery stores where I live in Germany.

Since I thought that was kind of cheating I decided I would make two, one a replication starting from some left over dough from a batch i made with the starter, and one with raw material. Aside from the fact that one included a small part of the dough I did exactly the same thing with both: replicating of a blanced blend of rye and wholemeal flour mixed at 1:1 with water with the base weight being 200 grams. I was very careful not to contaminate the wild one with the commerical, always working with the wild one first. On the third day I added a tiny amount (0.1 of a gram or so) of diastatic malt after I replicated (i didnt have any to add on the first day), And by the 8th day i had stability. The two behave somewhat differently with the wild one being a little slower to rise, but rising further in the oven, and they make a nice loaf mixed together. :-)

My opinion of this is that Im not all that convinced by the additives, with the exception of the diastatic malt. For the juices the reason is that I think its hard to control how acidic the formulation goes, and that citrus frust have their own associated bacteria and yeasts, which are probably not as appropriate as the yeasts we see living naturally on grain. (I will say though that I have seen one particularly cogent argument, incidentally posted here, in favour of using juice.)

For the milk i think its just generally a bad idea, some of the bascili in milk can kill you and also most milk you can buy is pasteurized anyway, and i think that the bascili we want grow naturally on the grain and on our hands and other places. We dont need it from milk. Sweetener I think is a bad idea. In general they are preservatives,

My feeling is that one wants to encourage the wild stuff on the grain to replicate and that introducing things that are totally foreign wont help. Diastatic malt is an exception because it is a substance that does naturally occur in wheat and other grains and so adding a bit more doesnt drastically change things. Also its effect is slower, something that i think is important, providing a steady supply of sugar over time instead of a huge amount at the start which tapers off over time, something which doesnt seem to me to be inclined to make for a stable environment, and after all one thing we are looking for is a stable environment.

Anyway, Im no expert, form your own opinions. But most importantly try it, it isnt very hard. :-)

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Stuck with salted Butter

The only butter I can find is salted.  Now what?  I've got a scales and now to figure.  I've seen some recipes that one "stick" of butter is 1/2 cup and that sometimes 1/4 teaspoon salt can be eliminated if salted butter is used.  I'm getting nervous...I would really appreciate some help. 

 

Q:  What is 1/2 cup of Butter in grams?  (Directly off the package, please)

Q:  And how many grams of salt are mentioned on the package for the test amount?  (usually 100g)

 

I thought I had a kilo of rye with me also but alas, I'm headed for withdrawal.  My baking world is stalling....help...

Mini off Oven 

 

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